Sasuke Vs Hiei Debunked
Why Sasuke VS Hiei was wrong even back then: Part 1
In the official death battle episode, they had Yusuke VS Yomi cloud splitting feat was 285 Zettatons. Since it took two to perform that feat. We’ll cut that in half. We get 142.5 Zettatons. So Yusuke and Yomi would be 142.5 Zettatons. Now I know Hiei is stated to be equal to Yusuke but getting stronger. However, there’s problems with that assessment.
During the tournament to decide who will be ruler of the demon world. In the manga, Hiei lost to Mukuro in the tournament. Enki was the winner of the tournament by defeating Mukuro. We are then given information in chapter 172 from Shigure and Kirin. Kirin is mukuro former top fighter and second in command. Shigure is one of Mukuro lieutenants. Shigure has a conversation with Kirin. He talks about how Mukuro should’ve easily beaten Enki. Kirin says that Mukuro true power depends on her state of mind. She just viewed her matches during the tournament as mere exhibitions. Now Mukuro does beat Hiei in the tournament. This implies that Mukuro whose was not in full power in tournament defeated Hiei. Yusuke in the manga comments on how only his fight went down with Yomi. His fight with Yomi left Yomi so exhausted he lost his next match. When Yusuke discusses that Hiei lost to Mukuro. He doesn’t give any information that would lead us to believe that Hiei battle with Mukuro affected her the way he affected Yomi. Now later on in the manga, Hiei does survive an enraged and thus full powered Mukuro attack. However, this wasn’t a true fight.
There’s too much conjecture if he would survive in an actual battle with Mukuro. Also, we already know Hiei lost to Mukuro in the tournament despite her not giving her all. Remember Yusuke had asked all the participants in the demon tournament to not kill anyone. This stated in Volume 18: Chapter 168: pg 184. Everyone followed the rules and made there people verbally submit to each other. Two examples can be found for Natsume vs Cho and Yomi vs Shura. So logically Mukuro had to have made Hiei verbally submit to her in order for her to win. I’ll discuss the anime version of there fight later.
Even if Hiei has the durability to survive an attack from the Mukuro. There’s not enough proof he could damage her. In the anime, Mukuro and Hiei are not fighting seriously at all. But when Hiei enrages her twice during the fight he was met with a serious attack from Mukuro. Hiei was downed in two serious blows. Compared that to Yusuke fight with Yomi in the anime. It was way more of a competitive fight. Now since Mukuro and Yomi scale to each other. It’s hard to say Hiei would be capable of producing the same feat as Yusuke.
Now we can still scale Hiei to Yusuke. But he would be as strong as Yusuke before his eventual fight with Yomi. In chapter 166, Yomi has a son named Shura. Yomi believes if Shura total demonic power reaches 500,000 TP before the tournament deadline, his victory is assured. Yomi now agrees with Kurama that second in commands would decide the outcome. In Chapter 171, as Yusuke is about face Yomi. He thinks in his head his power is equal to Shura. Meaning his total demonic power should be 500,000. Yusuke also says that Yomi could beat easily him like he did to Shura. In the Chapter 162, we are given numbers for how strong the top 3 demons are. 3 being Raizen, Mukuro, and Yomi. This was confirmed by one of Yomi spies.
Yomi stats are
Yomi
Tp 1,550,000
Hp 422,500
Op 382,500
Dp 325,000
Sp 410,000
We should trust these numbers because there’s a device that can accurately measure TP of demons. A brief example, would be Shachi whose has a confirmed TP of 37,800 in 162 chapter. In chapter 163, Shachi is no longer second in command of Yomi Army. He’s replaced by Kurama. So he decides to kill Kurama. He uses a device to read Kurama Tp. He concludes he could kill him because human Kurama TP is 1902. When Kurama transforms into his yoko form. He one shots Shachi. The TP rating for demon Kurama is 152,000. Compared that to Shachi who’s 37,800. So anyway, the device to measure TP is accurate.
If we divide Yomi TP with Shura who’s 500,000 TP. The result would be a 3.1 times difference. So Hiei scales only to Yusuke before his fight Yomi. After all Yusuke only did got stronger during his fight with Yomi in the anime and manga. So Yusuke whose 142.5 Zettatons. When we divide it by 3.1 times because Hiei is that much weaker than Yusuke. We get 45.9 Zettatons. Hiei S class speed was Mach 31,000 based on the black tab. The time stamp for the black tab is 11:07. By using a calculator website for Machs. We get 23,597,200 MPH.
Source:
https://calculator-converter.com/mach-to-mph.htm
It should be mentioned that the calculation for the Okunen tree feat has had its fair share of problems. Even strunton who was credited for the calculation. He personally commented on it in a blog post on Kamizephyr who debunked the death battle on deviant art. Even he admits that he can understand why others would have problems with the calc itself.
https://www.deviantart.com/kamizephyr/journal/An-Objective-Analysis-of-Sasuke-VS-Hiei-815017391
The height of Okunen tree is way higher than what was stated by Koenma in the anime itself. Because of that discrepancy the value they had would now be considerably lower. The curve for the demon world planet is more pronounced in the anime than it is in the manga.
Here’s a link to this guy explanation of it.
Death Battle said Sasuke was likely 364 Teratons because that’s what he was only shown to have done. Now this is dishonest because the same argument could be made for Hiei as well. Hiei only well known destruction feat is when he destroyed a huge part of the stadium with the dragon of the darkness flame. Hiei doesn’t have feats that come close to what Yusuke has done. Now there’s a databook statement that states Adult Sasuke has equal to strength to Adult Naruto. Since they do use use databooks and they scaled Hiei to Yuske based off a statement. I think it would only be fair to do the same. Now that means Sasuke would be moon level at the time of their video. But it would actually be much more. During the black tabs in the death battle itself. They are used as supportive arguments why a character beats another. The Time stamp for the black tab is 21:54
The black box states this
“Hagoromo and Humura created and moved a moon, a feat worth 254 Zettatons of TNT at most. (Less than the Okunen tree feat.) Sasuke was only given half Hagoromo power, or 1/4 of this feat’s potential. Although Naruto and Sasuke copied the moon creation to defeat Kaguya, it was a sealing technique, which does not directly translate to overall power level.”
They never give a good reason why it wouldn’t translate to overall power. I will prove that it does. There’s a 4th Databook scan about the First Six Path Chibiki Tensei. The ironic thing is that this databook is where the light speed fang jutsu originally came from. So there’s no excuse to be had with Death Battle not knowing this information.
The description of first paths chibaku Tensei from the fourth databook:
Transforming earth into a heavenly body! Capturing anything
With the six path prison!!
It is a Fuunjutsu that can only be used by individuals who have awakened senjutsu from the six paths. Chibaku Tensei is the version they can be used individually, while six paths chibaku Tensei is a more powerful version that requires two individuals combining yin and Yang powers. Jutsu transforms the sealing target into a gravitational core in the sky, attracting rock formations that bury it alive. This forms a celestial body in the sky that can serve as a prison even for a tailed beast. The heavenly body of the six paths is invoked when two people touch the sealing target with the yin and Yang seal’s respectively. Rocks attracted from the earth accumulate around the target, which is the gravitational core in the sky. It is compressed with powerful Charka and transformed into a Sphere into a matter of seconds. Even kaguya, who had been transformed , was unable to escape this prison.
The power of the Six Paths who created even the moon!!
When the Sage of Six Paths used it to seal Ten-Tails, it is said that Six Paths Chibaku Tensei was launched becoming the current Moon. By compiling such a large amount of chakra, it is possible to create a sealing orb the size of a Satellite.
https://narutoversity.wordpress.com/fourth-databook-jutsu-files/
If you read the description. It clearly describes that the technique itself requires Charka. Chakra is the energy in the Naruto verse for why jutsu can be activated. Charka directly comes from themselves. Since the first Chibaku Tensei requires Charka that means it’s themselves that are creating the moon. Should be mentioned that it was Hagoromo and Humura who would scale to this Jutsu. Naruto and Sasuke wouldn’t scale to the jutsu because Hagoromo gave them the jutsu. However, Hagoromo does give Naruto and Sasuke each half of his power. So Hagoromo and Humura who made the moon created a feat that’s worth 254 Zettatons. Now we’re going to be conservative like death battle was. Hagoromo would be 127 Zettatons since it took two. Hagoromo give Sasuke and Naruto each half of his power. So divide it by 2. The result is 63.5 Zettatons. It was accepted by them that Sasuke would have speed of light scaling based off of Naruto.
The results
Hiei Attack potency: 45.9 Zettatons because he’s 3.1 times weaker then Yusuke whose 142.5 Zettatons.
Hiei Speed: 23,597,200 MPH based off of Mach 31,000 which is the only speed number they give for Hiei.
Sasuke Attack Potency: 63.5 Zettatons because he’s 1/4 of Hagoromo. Hagoromo is 127 Zettatons because he’s half of the moon creation feat which is 254 Zettatons.
Sasuke Speed: 670,616,629 mph source Google
Now if you read Boruto you would know that Sasuke and Naruto are now stronger than Hagoromo. In chapter 670, when teen Naruto asked hagoromo if Kaguya is stronger than her. He said no one was stronger than her. So this obviously means he’s including himself. Kaguya was developing an zetsu army. Later on in chapter 705 of the Naruto gaiden, Sasuke was theorizing why someone as powerful as Kaguya wanted a zetsu army. What was she afraid of? Sasuke after traveling within one of Kaguya dimensions he found a scroll. He comes across Kinshiki and Momoshiki. This can be all found in the first two chapters of Boruto. The scroll detailed that there were going to be two beings coming into earth. These two beings would later on to be known as Momoshiki and Kinshiki. They wanted to create a divine tree which will suck Charka of all life on earth. Then turn the tree into a Charka fruit. Then finally consume it to become not only stronger but also extend their lives. During chapters 4 and 5. When Momoshiki and Kinshiki crashed the chunin exams. Naruto asked Sasuke who they are? Sasuke tells Naruto what I’ve been saying about what there goal was. Momoshiki confirms what Sasuke has been theorizing to be true. From chapter 6 through 9, Sasuke, Naruto along with five kage and Boruto. They defeated Momoshiki and Kinshiki. By being able to damage and defeat beings that Kaguya feared. Who’s stronger than Hagoromo. So that means Sasuke would be 127 Zettatons like Hagoromo bare minimum.
There’s something interesting about what Ben says in the QNA. I will be quoting from the QNA video itself.
https://youtu.be/mzPh6uRrg-I?si=IL_jXU4ypFA8t3oW
36:34-36:41
“And the planet level thing matches up more with Sage of Six Paths and what he was able to do with the moons. Things like that.”
So if your the Sage of Six paths then your planet level. Clearly Naruto and Sasuke were stronger than him as proven by the narrative of Boruto. Even in the feats for Sasuke they mentioned Sasuke help defeated Momoshiki from Naruto. So had they understood the story of Boruto then they would realize Sasuke was now stronger than Hagoromo. These crucial missteps lead to Sasuke being lowballed badly. At the same time they wrongly suggested Hiei was as strong as Yusuke when he fought Yomi. Both Hiei and Yusuke may have fought two of the strongest demons ever. But clearly Yusuke was more competitive in his fight against Yomi. Where’s with Mukuro vs Hiei it was a honestly a stomp.
Part 2 of my comment will discuss what else death battle was wrong about.
As for the counters they believe Hiei has for Sasuke. They were wrong as well.
They believed Hiei could keep fighting if his soul was removed from his body. This is because he could astral project at will. However, they weren’t being honest at all. First off, Hiei has literally had his soul removed from his body before. It was during the point in the story where Yusuke was kidnapped. In Chapter 155, when, Kurama, Kuwabara, and Botan were in Kaito territory. If you say the word Hot which is a taboo word. Then your soul gets removed from your body. Hiei said Hot and his soul was removed from his body. Hiei soul didn’t look like his astral projection form. Then in Chapter 120 after Kurama defeats Kaito in a game of taboo. Genkai gives us a diagram of what soul and ghost looks like. A soul looks like an orb. The ghost is an image of Yusuke when he was dead. Genkai states that a soul is defenseless and fragile. She’s one of the most knowledgeable characters in the series. So there’s no reason to doubt her. When Kurama talks about Astral projection he talks about him removing his spirit. Spirit can be mean soul but can also mean ghost too. Looking at how Kurama and Hiei look they would definitely resemble more of a ghost rather than a soul. Lastly, even if you disregard that interpretation. Sasuke can just use the Naraka path to seal Hiei soul in the king of hell. Hiei would be unable to move.
Death Battle claimed Hiei would survive all of Sasuke lighting attacks because he tanked that electrical attack from Momotaro. Also, an human being can survive a taser. But that doesn’t mean you could survive the electric chair. Sasuke with chidori pierced the fourth Raikage lighting armor. Previously Sasuke with his chidori blade was unable to get through the Raikage lighting armor. This means Sasuke with chidori has a higher lighting potency. So while Hiei would be able to resist chidori blade. He wouldn’t be able to survive the chidori because it has higher lighting potency. Sasuke in Naruto the last movie obliterated a a chunk of the meteorite that rock lee and his students destroyed of. Sasuke Perfect Susano using chidori rivaled Naruto Six paths kurama avatar bijou bomb. A bijou bomb can destroy mountains. Obviously that attack Hiei tanked is no where close to that destructive capability.
In the black tab of the death battle which is 19:33. This is what was stated by them as reason for why Hiei could overcome Amaterasu.
“Like Amaterasu, Hiei’s Darkness flame can burn other fire, and Hiei has developed an immunity to it. Naruto and Kaguya have both proven it’s possible to counter Amaterasu’s effects.”
This is a completely dishonest argument. Yes the Amaterasu wouldn’t affect Hiei. But how Kaguya dealt with Amaterasu was by absorbing it with her rinnegan. The rinnegan can absorb ninjutsu which is what Amaterasu is. Now does Hiei have a rinnegan? Of course not. Naruto used part of his bijou charka to throw the Amaterasu off of his body. Hiei has not proven to manipulate his aura the way Naruto can. Also, the biggest problem is that no one from what I’ve seen bring this up. How is Hiei supposed to remove the Amaterasu from him? Sasuke with Amaterasu has covered gigantic beings like the eight tails. So Hiei could be overwhelmed with so much black flames that he would be unable to see. This would leave him vulnerable to Sasuke another attacks.
The time stamp for this black tab is 21:36
“As Sasuke and Hiei absorb energy, these techniques counter each other. Sasuke Preta Path only absorbs Charka, and so could not absorb the Darkness flame. This and his lack of Senjutsu techniques means he could not create the Indra Susano, as it requires Charka equivalent to the tailed beast.”
It’s true Sasuke preta path wouldn’t work on Hiei because he has charka. It’s also true that Hiei can’t take energy away from Sasuke because he doesn’t possess aura. Naruto characters possess charka. Yu Yu Hakusho characters use aura. Watch Episode 58 from either English or Japanese sub. It starts 17:30. Should be mentioned that what’s said in english version is different from the Japanese version. English says he sucked away bui battle aura. While the Japanese says he repelled contestant Bui battle aura. But the fact they disregarded their sound logic for why Sasuke couldn’t absorb Hiei dragon. But give Hiei complete leeway as to why he could absorb Sasuke energy. It just shows they weren’t arguing in good faith.
As for why Hiei would resist genjutsu. One instance of resisting a mental attack wouldn’t be enough to resist stronger mind control. The Sharingan mind control potency is so strong that method to break out if doesn’t work. Sharingan can resist another Sharingan genjutsu. Then you have the Mangekyou Sharingan which is stated to be stronger than the Sharingan. Kakashi stated that six path powers enhance one’s ocular powers. Since Sasuke has six path powers because he received it from Hagoromo. It would increase the mind control potency. So while Hiei would resist the Sharingan. He wouldn’t be able to resist the Mangekyou Sharingan.
So with that being said. Hiei beating Sasuke wasn’t accurate.
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